PD ROM 1/PD ROM Volume I - Macintosh Software from BMUG (1988).iso/Electronic Messages/USEnet Digests/USEnet Vol. 3/USEnet 3.078

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Date: Tue 6 Oct 87 13:21:51-EDT
From: Jeff Shulman <SHULMAN@SDR>
Subject: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #78

Usenet Mac Digest     Monday, October 5, 1987        Volume 3 : Issue 78

Today's Topics:
     Re: Fedit+
     Re: Possible LSC improvements
     Re: When will SE/II version of Inside M
     Virtual Memory with the Mac OS
     Experience with hard disk
     Orphans of Tecmar
     MacDraw or PICT Format Clip-Art?
     Saving info with text files (repost)
     HFS Menus on pre-4.1 systems
     Re: MultiFinder & LightSpeed C
     Re: Virtual Memory with the Mac OS
     hypertext vs. hypercards
     How Many Colors? (2 messages)
     LA50 driver around anywhere????
     STSC APL*PLUS for Mac II: any patches?
     How would you like an extra 500K of RAM for free?
     Re: How Many Colors?
     Re: Virtual Memory with the Mac OS
     Drawpicture from C - HELP!!
     Excel Meg Limit
     Hypercard question
     Re: hypertext vs. hypercards

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Julian E Gomez)
Subject: Re: Fedit+
Date: 2 Oct 87 19:26:48 GMT
Organization: RIACS, Moffett Field, CA

Two weeks ago I called MacMaster Systems to ask them the same question
and they told me 1.0.7 is current with the possibility of 2.0 being
available in October.

--
"Physicists are mathematicians in a hurry"  B. Mandelbrot

    Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez
    [e-mail] || {...decvax!}ames!riacs!julian


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David Phillip Oster)
Subject: Re: Possible LSC improvements
Date: 2 Oct 87 20:36:33 GMT
Organization: School of Education, UC-Berkeley

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Alen Shapiro) writes:
>I find it annoying that after a R(un command
>(and subsequent exit from my application) my carefully set up
>edit windows and cursor locations within them are lost (on return
>to LSC).

An easy way to do this is: 1.) if you have the recently posted WDEF 2
(multi-finder compatibility patch installed in your working copy of
LightSpeed C, then throw it away and make a new copy of your master.

2.) Start Switcher (I use version 5.5, available from user's groups and
APDA)

3.) Use Switcher's "Get Info" command to find out how much memory you've
got.

4.) Use Switcher's "Configure and Install" command to configure
LightSpeed C to use almost all the free memory (I give mine 750k on a 1
meg machine. Performance is improved by giving it at least a small RAM
Cache (On the control panel.))

5.) Now, when you run a program under test and exit it, LSC comes back
much faster, with all your open files, scroll positions, and cursor
positions intact.

6.) For conveninence, I create a "Switcher Set" document for each of my
projects that when you double click on it:
  a.) Starts Switcher
  b.) starts LSC
  c.) opens the project.

I double click on these instead of on the project documents.

You can even examine the source code while the program is running.
Remember though, you must open all the files you are going to want to
look at  before you hit the Run command. You can switch out of the
running-program-under-test and back to LightSpeed C, but you must be
careful not to open any more files until you quit the
running-program-under-test.  This flaw is because LSC gives up a little
too much memory to the running-program-under-test.  You get back to the
program-under-test with <command>-R (the resume command.)

If you write applications or DAs in LSC, this method of development is
great for your edit-compile-test cycle.  I use this scheme all the time
under System 4.1. I test very frequently because it is so fast and I
don't lose my place in my source code.


--- David Phillip Oster            --Thanks to THINK Inc. (now a subsidiary)
Arpa: [e-mail] --for a truly great product.
Uucp: {uwvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Robert Gardner)
Subject: Re: When will SE/II version of Inside M
Date: 2 Oct 87 17:01:01 GMT
Organization: Philips Research Labs, Sunnyvale, California

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joel West)
writes:
>
>the 512 is dead and new software is and should be
>written for a 512Ke minimum.

Just how true is this statement? I know this was hashed out on the net
before regarding 128K RAM Macs, but I'm curious about 128K ROM vs. 64K
ROM machines. (The claim was that there are no more than 20,000 128K RAM
machines left.) We're trying to convince people that coding for old ROMs
is no longer necessary, but we can't get enough info to be pursuasive.
Our simple surveys suggest that there are a lot more than 20,000 128K
RAM machines, let alone old ROM machines. Where did this figure come
from? I would guess that virtually all old ROM machines are in homes
rather than businesses. It seems that Apple has enough info to answer
this conclusively, since they should know how many old ROM machines they
sold and how many new ROM upgrades they've sold. They may not want to
release sales figures, but they could at least tell us percentages. I
think this would provide a great service to developers. What fraction of
our potential market do we lose if our applications can't run on 64K
ROMs?

Robert Gardner

P.S. I keep a 64K ROM Mac at home just to test software
on to make sure it runs (usually agonizingly slowly! You tend to forget
how snail-like the original Macs were!). I'd sure like to upgrade that
Mac!


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Norman Graham)
Subject: Virtual Memory with the Mac OS
Date: 1 Oct 87 07:52:05 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State Univ., Stillwater

Does anyone out there know what it would take to have demand paging
virtual  memory on the Mac II?  Could it be as simple as plugging in a
68851 and  writing an interrupt handler to take care of swapping the
pages?

I know, I know... The next thing I'll be asking for is a virtual machine
operating system :-)  Hey... that might be pretty neat at that!


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Don Chitwood)
Subject: Experience with hard disk
Date: 1 Oct 87 19:07:42 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

I recently posted an article outlining my agony and thrashing about
regarding hard disk choices.  Well, I made a choice and am quite happy
with it to date. That's what this article is about.

Many people responded to my article with helpful comments.  I must now
admit to  a pre-purchase bias toward the Cirrus 30HD formerly made by
Kamerman Labs. The bias was due to hands-on experience with a Cirrus
20HD here at work and appreciating the software and the overall package.
 Also, the  software was written by a local person who is highly
respected by everyone I've talked to.

Unfortunately, Kamerman Labs was the victim of an article in MacWorld
which stated that they had gone Chapter 11 and died.  The Chapter 11
part was true as far as it went, and was with respect to the PC side of
Kamerman's business. When that article was published, their healthy
sales volume dropped essentially to zero.  Then they died.  It is
incredibly ironic that an ad for the Cirrus line was just a few pages
away from the article that announced its death.

Anyway, the Cirrus line was taken over by another company called LaCie
Ltd. I went to the factory and talked to the people there about my
concerns with the future of the product (i.e. their company) and service
should I have any problems.  I left feeling that I had been given an
extremely candid and honest appraisal of their current and future
business and that it was healthy.

The software is called Silver Lining, written by Roger Bates.  It allows
you to partition the disk into Volumes which you can size and
manipulate.  A desk accessory lists the volumes and allows the user to
select which ones to mount.  It is possible to password-protect volumes
so that confidential files can be kept that way.  Silver Lining also has
disk test and formatting capability.  There are also options for
configuring the drivers, depending on how you want to use your drive
(I'm getting into things I don't understand here, so I won't try to
elaborate.)  I was told at the factory that it is also possible to
re'size the Volumes once they are created without destroying data but I
haven't tried that yet.

My only complaint with this product is the manual (the one I received
was for an older version of the software and doesn't discuss some of the
new features; the new manual is  due back from the printers "any day
now".) It doesn't describe procedures and features with enough
completeness to eliminate my confusion.  I would not call it "user
friendly".  However, once the hard disk is set up, there's no need for
the manual and the drive  couldn't be easier to use.

This model has a cooling fan, run at half-speed to keep noise down, but
still is a bit loud overall.  I paid $699 for 31 Megs.  It appears to be
a fine product, particularly combined with the software package, Silver
Lining. I don't hesitate to recommend it.  By the way, I'd say loudness
is comparable to a Dataframe XP20, the only other hard disk I've used.

For anyone interested, LaCie's phone number is [phone].  They are
located in Tigard, Oregon, just southwest of Portland.

There is no business or other relationship between LaCie Ltd. and myself
other than that of my being a satisfied customer.  My opinions are my
own and that $699 is now theirs.

Don Chitwood Tektronix, Inc.


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Alexander Cohen)
Subject: Orphans of Tecmar
Date: 3 Oct 87 03:51:16 GMT
Organization: SUNY/Buffalo Computer Science


    After many months of waiting my old Tecmar 10 meg unit was returned by
Tecmar.  And, lo and behold!  New software (2.3).

    For any of you who still have one of these venerable drives and would
like the new software ( which includes an installer so that you can
install the driver onto say a SCSI disk so you won't need the floppy),
please send me a stamped self-addressed envelope and two disks, and I'll
return one with the software on it.

    Another possibility is to write Tecmar and see if you get a response
from them, unfortunately they don't seem to interested in  continuing to
support these drives.

    Mail address:

    Alex Cohen
    127 St. James Place
    Buffalo, NY  14222

------------------------------------------------------------------------
           "--Dream. Ona nonday I sleep. I dreamt of a somday.
            Of a wonday I shall wake."   --Finnegans Wake

...{bbncca,decvax,dual,rocksvax,watmath,sbcs}!sunybcs!cohen
CSNET:    [e-mail]
ARPANET:  [e-mail]
BITNET:   [e-mail]
GEnie:    AJCOHEN                            --==>>Alex Cohen<<==--
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (J. Collymore)
Subject: MacDraw or PICT Format Clip-Art?
Date: 2 Oct 87 20:32:42 GMT
Organization: AT&T CSEd/CET, Piscataway, N.J.

Can any of you out there recommend clip art packages that are
OBJECT-ORIENTED (i.e. MacDraw or PICT formats) that have a nicely done,
and diverse, clip art images?

Please post your replies to the net or send me e-mail.

Thanks.

                        Jim Collymore


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tom Carstensen)
Subject: Saving info with text files (repost)
Date: 2 Oct 87 23:18:20 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics, Beaverton OR

We haven't been recieving any news, so I'm reposting this in hope for
some responses.


Most text editors save information (such as font, fontsize, tabs, etc)
in the resource fork of the text file.
   Every text editor used on the file adds to  the list of resources.

THE SCENARIO:  I Have just saved a text file with my own text editor
which uses a resource file to store such information.  Now I use two
other editors, which when selecting SAVE add their own resource
information. This text file STILL has a CREATOR type from my text editor
                                             .

QUESTION:  Should my text editor delete the others resources from the
text file when it save the file again?

I beleive that the text file should only contain resource information
that is associated with it's CREATOR field. Therefore, when I save to my
text editor-text files, I should delete other resources.  But when I am
saving to someone elses text file, I should not delete them, and I
SHOULD NOT put  my own their.

Having everyone add thier resources to the file seems wasteful, and
could get ridiculous.

Well?

:------------------------------------------------------------:
: Tom Carstensen              Usenet: [e-mail] :
: Mentor Graphics             GEnie:                         :
:------------------------------------------------------------:

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tom Carstensen)
Subject: HFS Menus on pre-4.1 systems
Date: 2 Oct 87 23:25:07 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics, Beaverton OR

I want HFS menus to be capable on  all systems/machines, but when I
include the new MDEF in System 4.1 in my resource file, and use it as my
MENU's MDEF, it doesn't work on non 4.1  systems (or 64K ROM's).

This used to work on previous version of the MDEF. (ie. the MDEF that
came when the Plus were shipped would work on any machine/system)

Is what I want to do possible, and if so, what else do I need to make it
possible. I'd REALLY!! like to avoid having to write my own MDEF to do
what I want, but it could be done as a last resort.

:------------------------------------------------------------:
: Tom Carstensen              Usenet: [e-mail] :
: Mentor Graphics             GEnie:                         :
:------------------------------------------------------------:

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Richard Siegel)
Subject: Re: MultiFinder & LightSpeed C
Date: 3 Oct 87 18:19:43 GMT
Organization: THINK Technologies, Inc., Bedford, MA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Marc
Hannah) writes:
>how about LightSpeed Pascal compatibility with MultiFinder? I'm sure
>that is tougher but just as important. Rich?
>

    You're right; it is much tougher, because there now has to be a
context-switching environment within a context-switching environment. I
don't know exactly what the solution is here; only that it's being
worked on.

        --Rich


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Christopher Chow)
Subject: Re: Virtual Memory with the Mac OS
Date: 3 Oct 87 17:34:30 GMT
Organization: Cornell Theory Center, Cornell University, Ithaca NY

One thing which you might want to question is whether if you want to add
an 68851 MMU to your Mac II.  I'm not a hardware guru, but from what
understand, the 68851 chip adds wait state(s) to every memory reference.
How's that for slowing down your machine.  Note that Suns, etc., all use
their custom MMU chips to avoid the wait state problems with the
Motorola chip.

Christopher Chow
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Internet:  [e-mail] (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35)   |
| Usenet:    ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow    |
| Bitnet:    [e-mail]                                           |
| Phone:     [phone],  USPS: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853      |
| Delphi:    chow2            PAN:  chow                                    |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark Interrante)
Subject: hypertext vs. hypercards
Date: 2 Oct 87 15:22:20 GMT
Organization: UF CIS Department

Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with
a  particular word in a text field?  This is a generic operation in most
hypertext systems and would be crippling to hypercards if such a
facility  was not readily available.

I seems that Apple has underpowered the text facilities in favor of
supporting extensive draw utilities. has anyone else found this
hampering?


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Richard Siegel)
Subject: How Many Colors?
Date: 3 Oct 87 23:44:35 GMT
Organization: THINK Technologies, Inc., Bedford, MA

How does one tell how many bits per pixel are set in the Control Panel?
I know that it's possible, because I see demos that refuse to run unless
8 bits per pixel (256 colors) are set up -- they display a message
saying "8 bits per pixel required" if it isn't set up.

I assume I'm missing something from IM 5; can anyone set me straight?

        --Rich


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David Fry)
Subject: Re: How Many Colors?
Date: 4 Oct 87 01:14:10 GMT
Organization: Harvard Math Department

Let screenRect be a rectangle that defines the area you want to know the
pixel depth of.  If you only have one monitor attached then screenRect
can be screenBits.bounds, but you may want to be more specific for
multiple monitors.  If you just want to know the greatest depth of any
monitor attached (which is the normal thing to do) let screenRect be the
rectangle enclosing the GrayRgn, the desktop even for multiple screen
setups.

Once you've got screenRect figured out, call  maxdev =
GetMaxDevice(&screenRect);
    /* returns gDevice handle of deepest device */

and then

theDepth = (**((**maxdev).gdPMap)).pixelSize;

will give you the bits per pixel of that screen.


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Phil Hunt)
Subject: LA50 driver around anywhere????
Date: 4 Oct 87 00:22:39 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Does anyone have a driver for the Digital LA50 printer???  It is really
a Imagewriter I with DEC roms.  If someone has a driver, I sure could us
it.

Phil Hunt
===========================
"My screen in gray, my menu is blue, my scroll bars are red.  Why, it must be
a NEW Mac II!!!"

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Simon Tortike)
Subject: STSC APL*PLUS for Mac II: any patches?
Date: 3 Oct 87 08:20:39 GMT
Organization: U. of Alberta, Edmonton, AB

Has anyone seen a patch to enable STSC's APL*PLUS for the Macintosh work
on the Mac II?  How about an upgrade or release of an APL which does
work on the Mac II? If anyone from STSC reads this newsgroup would they
please post a reply.  This is a great product which would be even
greater if it could run on the new machine. Thanks.
  -------------------
W. Simon Tortike
Dept Min, Met &    UUCP:   {ubc-vision,ihnp4,mnetor}!alberta!simon
  Petroleum Engg   BITNET: stortike@ualtavm
Univ. of Alberta   AGT:    [phone]
Edmonton, AB
Canada T6G 2G6

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Juri Munkki)
Subject: How would you like an extra 500K of RAM for free?
Date: 3 Oct 87 09:52:39 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

The basic Macintosh II has 1M of RAM. When you add an apple video card,
you get 256K or 512K of video RAM. A single bit plane uses about 38K of
this memory and even the full 8-bit graphics mode uses only 300K. This
leaves you with at least 212K of free memory. This is just enough for a
System Heap under MultiFinder or it could at least be used for a
RAMDisk. I think that although this works only on an Apple Video Card,
someone could write a patch that optionally would make use of the VRAM.

Juri Munkki [e-mail]


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Joel West)
Subject: Re: How Many Colors?
Date: 4 Oct 87 11:35:02 GMT
Organization: Palomar Software, Inc., Vista, CA

Well, in any PixMap (including global screen) there is a pixelSize
value, which is 1,2,4 or 8.

If you want to get an exact answer, you have to check each display,
which are represented by gDevice's, each of which has a PixMap.
--
    Joel West  (c/o UCSD)
    Palomar Software, Inc., P.O. Box 2635, Vista, CA  92083
    {ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!jww     [e-mail]
   or    ihnp4!crash!palomar!joel    [e-mail]


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stew Rubenstein)
Subject: Re: Virtual Memory with the Mac OS
Date: 4 Oct 87 16:21:29 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab Harvard, Cambridge, MA

The wait states are already there.  Two of 'em.  The 851 doesn't add any
more. As I understand it, it's a drop-in replacement for the fake MMU
that's in there now.

I don't think that interrupt handler is so simple.  You also have to
worry about getting the page map set up to begin with, and a million
other things. I am sure Apple is working on it, and I hope they've hired
some folks who know something about multi-user operating systems.
They've said that the Multifinder we are seeing now is just the first
generation in an evolution towards real multi-tasking.

Stew Rubenstein
Cambridge Scientific Computing, Inc.
UUCPnet:    seismo!harvard!rubenstein            CompuServe: 76525,421
Internet:   [e-mail]       MCIMail:    CSC

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Joe Gervais)
Subject: Drawpicture from C - HELP!!
Date: 4 Oct 87 05:41:17 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

    I'm programing in Megmax C (v. 2.0 (?)) and after defining a picture
and closing it, I can draw it in the original srcrect but if I try to
move it I don't get anything.  I "believe" I'm doing it correctly, but I
just don't get   anything.  Even just offsetting the srcrect (so as not
to change size and need  scaling) it doesn't work.


          pichandle pik;

    /* set two rects  */

        pik = openpicture(&pikrect2);
    .
    .
    closepicture();
    drawpicture(pik,&pikrect2);  /*<-- works*/
    drawpicture(pik,&pikrect1);  /* <-- nada.. */

    Is there is some common error I'm missing in declaration (I've tried
simple forms as well as my picture) or some problem in C or Megamax
specifically or ANYTHING?!?  Any advice except telling me to use
lightspeed is GREATLY  appreciatted!!!   That's about all...  I'm Tod
but mail c/o Joe Gervais @ sdcc18 UC San Diego Computing Center...

            Thanks in advance...
                -tk
               Rebel w/o a clue..


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Eric Schlegel)
Subject: Excel Meg Limit
Date: 1 Oct 87 14:03:05 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Does anyone know the exact state of the meg limit on Excel? I recall
hearing    that Microsoft used 20-bit addresses in their p-code, and
thus Excel can't  address more than a meg. Would this apply to just the
location of the code, or does it mean that Excel couldn't use memory
over a meg for data either?

This question is about to become very important with MultiFinder. The
latest  issue of MacWEEK states that Excel will only work under MF if it
is loaded      first, presumably so that the code will fall in the first
meg.

Eric
--------
Eric Schlegel        [e-mail]  BITNET
            erics@dartvax        UUCP

#include    <std_disclaimer.h>
#include    <quote.h>

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chuq Von Rospach)
Subject: Hypercard question
Date: 4 Oct 87 21:36:41 GMT

I'll bet this will turn out to be a real simple question, but here goes.
I'm starting to work with Hypercard, and I'm trying to put together a
pretty simple application, but I'm not sure how to build a linked list
of cards attached to a primary card.

The basic design is this. I've got a stack of cards. For each card in
the stack, I may have zero or more cards that I want to attach to it.
The primary card should have a count of the number of cards attached to
it as well as a way of looking at each of the cards.

Any suggestions? I'm sure this is pretty trivial, but I haven't had a
lot of time to hack hypercard yet.

chuq

chuq

Chuq Von Rospach                    [e-mail]
Editor, OtherRealms                    Delphi: CHUQ

Bye bye life!  Bye bye happiness! Hello, loneliness, I think I'm gonna die.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark Thomsen)
Subject: Re: hypertext vs. hypercards
Date: 4 Oct 87 21:40:07 GMT
Organization: TRW - Data Systems Lab., Redondo Beach, CA

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark
Interrante) writes:
>Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with a
>particular word in a text field?  This is a generic operation in most
>hypertext systems and would be crippling to hypercards if such a facility
>was not readily available.
>
>I seems that Apple has underpowered the text facilities in favor of supporting
>extensive draw utilities. has anyone else found this hampering?


A script (the principle unit of action in Hypercard) may be associated
with a whole field or a button.  Fields and buttons are two types of
objects of roughly the same level of the inheritance hierarchy.

Thus ...

The direct answer is no, you cannot associated a button - or an action -
with a specific word in a field.  Yes, I do find this hampering, though
this does not come from working with Hypertext previously.  I would
expect to expand and define and link a word in various contexts of
browsing information.

A thought ...

I have been producing personal stacks to get myself organized and have
just started thinking through some stacks I would like to share.  (Yes,
I'm that disorganized and yes my priorities are that way).  In thinking
of new stacks I have started a wish list for future Hypercard
capabilities.  Bill Atkinson, if you are out there:

  - Text seems to have a greater status than pictures.  Now, without object
    drawing it is hard, but it seems sensible to have picture fields.

  - A Hyperartifact may have its spaghetti in the development and refinement,
    and use various wordprocessors, spreadsheets, drawing tools, etc.  When
    done, it would be nice to say "print that" and have it all come together
    in a seemless document.  While hypertext is important in its own write
    (sorry John Lennon, it slipped), it sometimes is part of the process and
    not necessarily the final artifact.

  - There should be an automatic map display and navigation capability as in
    the help stack -- it is an essential feature of hypertext.

  - In my dreams I think of "tiny agents" that perform in the background to
    help perform certain housekeeping, alerting, sorting, searching, and such
    functions.  I would like to provide these as scripts that operate
    concurrently with browsing.  This suggests scripts below the surface of
    Hypercard, unassociated with any visible field, button, background, and
    maybe even stack (though it has to be someplace, like its own file).  I
    am unsure of exactly how this works, but it seems like a good thing to
    have.

That's all for now folks.


                                               Mark R. Thomsen


------------------------------

End of Usenet Mac Digest
************************